Proposed New French legislation

Karoshi · Post by **Karoshi** » Sat Feb 18, 2006 7:58 am

We are no doubt all aware of the new French legislation slated for introduction late in late 2006.

Readers might find the following petition of interest, a Babel translation will give sufficient understanding:

http://www.stef-jeep.org/

Karoshi

42cckw · Post by **42cckw** » Sat Feb 18, 2006 9:00 am

KAROSHI
CAN YOU TRANSLATE @(*%^#@+_(&!@@#% INTO ENGLISH I CAN'T EVEN UNDERSTAND THE BABEL !

JIM 42CCKW

joel gopan · Post by **joel gopan** » Sat Feb 18, 2006 9:14 am

No big deal, when in France, do as the French do, Jim it ain't a big thing over here, I would not lose any sleep over it as most MV collectors worldwide have had the advantage of 60 years of WWII surplus. I would not lose any sleep over it.

42cckw · Post by **42cckw** » Sat Feb 18, 2006 9:22 am

Joel
But the

is what isn't a big thing

JIM CCKW

joel gopan · Post by **joel gopan** » Sat Feb 18, 2006 10:17 am

Jim, what isn't the big thing is that Chicken Little is not out there saying "the sky is falling". The French are doing a little tightening up on surplus, and it ain't no big deal. When is the last time you did business in France?

42cckw · Post by **42cckw** » Sat Feb 18, 2006 10:25 am

JOEL

Absolutely nothing surprises me about the french

joel gopan · Post by **joel gopan** » Sat Feb 18, 2006 10:34 am

I didn't think so.

Bill_Wolf · Post by **Bill_Wolf** » Sat Feb 18, 2006 12:03 pm

Lets stay away from just Bashing the French (even though in this case their government deserves it) and in all other posts on this board stay away from politics. In this one case I will allow factual political discussion of this issue only.

From what I gather (Karoshi correct me if I am wrong) the French government has catagorized all military equipment from a group 8 to a group 1. With 1 being the most lethal (current exocet missles, fighters, tanks, etc) and 8 being well who knows what.

All Military vehciles (Softskin or Armor) regardless of age have been catagorized in group #2. For collectors this is not a good thing. The law further decrees that "permission" must be obtained from the government to keep these vehicles. If permission is not obtained the vehicles must be turned into the government and be destroyed.

It has been noted that the only people to get permission to keep these vehicles will be certified museums. All others will be required to turn in their Shermans, M-8's, CCKW's, Ben-hur trailers, Jeeps, demilled rifles, and basically all real kit. These Historic items of the worlds greatest conflict will be destroyed with NO restitution paid to the owner. This is to happen by November 2006.

There is also a moratorium on selling HMV's outside the country to get around this law.

On the surface it looks as though if allowed to go through all these beautiful Historic Military vehicles may be lost to scrap.....

The WWII generation is dying off....in fact almost gone. They are pushing this now because they have dwindling opposition. They will continue to do so.

Make no mistake...If you think it can't happen in the UK or the USA you are wrong. If it goes through in France it is just a matter of time before the anti-military/anti-war crowd gets it done here.

Below is a google translation of Karoshi's link

decree nÃ‚Â°2005-1463 PETITION Six articles of this decree (bearing on the weapons) more particularly relate to the vehicles, ships and aircraft of military collection of origin, in particular article 8 which regards them as weaponries of 2nd category and subjects their owner to the very strict mode of the preliminary authorization for any acquisition or detention. The weapons of 2nd category are defined in the article L 2331-1 of the Code of defense as being the "materials intended to carry or use with the combat the weapons with fire". Article 2 of the decree nÃ‚Â°95-589 of May 6, 1995 specifies that they are for the terrestrial vehicles the "tanks, armoured vehicles, like their shielding and their turrets", but also, of the "not armoured vehicles equipped at station fixes or provide with a special device allowing the assembly or the transport of weapon". There is thus a risk that the concept of weaponry is extended to that of military material, like with that of vehicle of collection of military origin. However, this extension would be particularly detrimental to the citizens devoting itself to the leisure of the collection of this type of vehicles, ships or aircraft old. Source: French federation of the Vehicles of Time (FFVE)

Note: There has been only 1 instance of a WWII Tank being used in the commission of a crime....And that is when Kelly colluded with the German Tiger to rob that Bank of gold bars during WWII.

joel gopan · Post by **joel gopan** » Sat Feb 18, 2006 12:07 pm

Bashing? Did I do that?

Bill_Wolf · Post by **Bill_Wolf** » Sat Feb 18, 2006 12:16 pm

joel gopan wrote:Bashing? Did I do that?

I want to Thank you Joel for keeping the discussion focused on this serious issue like I asked.

Feel free to take any more swipes at me but just make sure it is by PM or email.

Bill

Matt · Post by **Matt** » Sat Feb 18, 2006 1:41 pm

This is something I think we should all be concerned about,I would not be surprised if the UK government does try to do something similiar,they have already demonstrated that they have little respect for our military history.

Matt.

Karoshi · Post by **Karoshi** » Sat Feb 18, 2006 1:52 pm

Bill, at this time I understand your interpretation to be correct. I am liaising with some French colleagues to get confirmation of how they see the situation. The detail of the "intention" of this legislation is unclear but the concern amongst the MV membership is very real.

Sharing a common interest, I would have thought that ANY legislation aimed at preventing private ownership of Ex Military kit would be of global interest, and would have won international support. Apparently I'm wrong, as some seem to have expressed an Its Not In My Back Yard attitude.

Could this arise from the fact that some individuals stand to profit from hoarded spares, when the European source prematurely drys up. I wonder.

European enthusiasts are very concerned at the proposals, and there is now a movement to express that concern. It happens to be headed up by a private individual, it is of no concern to ME that he is Black or White American, British or French. The individual is monitoring the situation for us, and has offered an opportunity to express our concerns properly and correctly through the good offices of his web site, all we are being asked to do, as fellow enthusiasts is to sit on our asses and make a few mouse clicks. Perhaps that's just to difficult for some...unless there's a buck in it.

Degsy · Post by **Degsy** » Sat Feb 18, 2006 2:03 pm

Couldn't agree more Karoshi, this could well be the thin end of the wedge,
it is vital that we stick together worldwide. There's an old saying,"Divide
and Rule". Need I say more?

armydriver · Post by **armydriver** » Sun Feb 19, 2006 12:15 am

I attended a military collectables show today and two buddies of mine were talking about a similair law has been introduced in Kansas . I hope they are wrong.

Barry Churcher · Post by **Barry Churcher** » Sun Feb 19, 2006 11:19 am

Guys, we should not be near sighted on this issue. The sky really is falling and we don't do anything about it. We had issues like this in Canada where the gun registration was only affecting handgun owners. We donated money for fighting legislation but couldn't get the long gun owners (Hunters mostly) onside for the fight. Well when we lost the battle ALL guns had to be registerd. That got the long gun owners crying. Now we have storage issues and lately the government has been making noises about outlawing handguns. I use this example not to plug the gun problem but to show the slippery slope that can develop when this sort of issue comes up. You can't register a Ferrett in Kansas so why should I in Canada care? Your'e damn right I care!! We were lucky in Canada that it didn't become an issue when an as*&#le drove his Ferrett up to the Parliament buildings wearing a helmet etc. The RCMP crapped their drawers. We must use our heads and we must support any issue that comes up for whatever group or nation that threatens to take away our freedom and rights. Where do I sign up?
Cheers,
Barry

Matt · Post by **Matt** » Sun Feb 19, 2006 11:29 am

In the UK handguns have already been banned,as have all automatics. a blackpowder cap n'ball pistol is a section 1 firearm.

Since these bans came into force the gun crime rate has gone UP!.

Matt.

Barry Churcher · Post by **Barry Churcher** » Sun Feb 19, 2006 12:17 pm

Canada has spent close to 2 BILLION!!!! dollars on gun registry and it isn't working, but they still want to spend more and then still take away the guns. That just shows how little clout we have if they want to come and get our military vehicles. Notice how the French Govt. has already put rules in effect to stop exportation. Our military vehicles are already registered guys. How soon do you think it will take them to find us?
Like the French or hate them, we should support the collectors and try to stop this foolishness before it comes to our countries. As a young man it was very easy to be envious of our neighbour to the south. Americans seemed to have all the rights that we didn't have yet wanted. I am not envious anymore because your rights have been slowly eroded the same as ours. It isn't about to stop soon.
Cheers,
Chicken Little

armydriver · Post by **armydriver** » Sun Feb 19, 2006 8:45 pm

After all, the sam type of people that are pushing for gun control, abolishing private ownership of historic military vehichles are the same type that won't allow a statue of Colonel Pappy Boyington CMOH be erected on the campus where he graduated because he killed people. He shot down 28 Japanese airplanes during WWII.
It is the time we live in and it has been coming for a long time.

The GMC CCKW

Proposed New French legislation

Proposed New French legislation

BABEL TRANSLATION #@*^)_+%%$

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