An interesting find

mick.wilson · Post by **mick.wilson** » Mon Aug 21, 2006 3:49 pm

I have no idea what is said on the web site but it looks like an interesting find.
http://www.detektorweb.cz/index.4me?s=s ... &mm=1&vd=1

Mick.

armydriver · Post by **armydriver** » Mon Aug 21, 2006 4:43 pm

Agreed that is a valuable and very historical find.

Bill_Wolf · Post by **Bill_Wolf** » Mon Aug 21, 2006 6:41 pm

Wow!

60 plus years buried and it looks like that!

What a great find.

Parade Ready!

42cckw · Post by **42cckw** » Tue Aug 22, 2006 3:35 am

To be in that condition after all these years is simply amazing, Boy if that TD could talk what a story I bet it could tell. I discoverd something else if you scroll down past the pictures and click on all the other words , each one contains other interesting items that has been dug up, alot of history there . I think it might be polish, is there anyone that can tell us english boys about it

I wonder who will retain ownership , I saw another article about a Russian tank that had been captured and used by the Germans, and was found buried in mud in a pond,and it had been claimed by the government. Items like that are out there, WW2 was a massive war and people will continue to find things for many many years to come.

A absolute must see

scroll down untill you come to alot of words in white and click on each link ,it will take awhile to see each one ,but is is a must see what they are finding over there it is well worth the time

Degsy · Post by **Degsy** » Tue Aug 22, 2006 2:59 pm

I think it is Czech rather than Polish.

42cckw · Post by **42cckw** » Tue Aug 22, 2006 4:27 pm

Thanks Degsy
That goes to show you what I know, I am limited to English only .Did you get a chance to check out what I said

Its awsome stuff for military history buffs lots and lots of armor,they even raised a U boat

If only all that stuff could talk ,there is always a story behind it and how it got there.

Matt · Post by **Matt** » Tue Aug 22, 2006 4:42 pm

I hope they are responsible if they find any MIA's during these recoveries,there are cases of remains being found and discarded by some "diggers" in Eastern Europe in recent years

42cckw · Post by **42cckw** » Tue Aug 22, 2006 6:06 pm

Agreed Matt
They should be treated with dignity and all efforts given to idenity and proper burial, no mater what side they fought for, they died for their country

what a waste war is.

Degsy · Post by **Degsy** » Tue Aug 22, 2006 6:21 pm

No ,unfortunately I haven't had time yet.

Bill_Wolf · Post by **Bill_Wolf** » Tue Aug 22, 2006 6:41 pm

Most archealogical digs (or dives) of potential historic battle sites of WWI and onward have a representative of the countrys military on scene who overseas any possible discovery of an MIA soldiers remains. Here in the states I believe the group is called JPAC (Joint POW/MIA Accounting Commission or something like that).

There are laws in almost every civilized nation about disturbing the remains of the war dead. Thus giving most recoveries the full military honors that these soldiers deserve.

I would imagine that the Czech's strictly adhere to this code of conduct. With most of their country being "in-Theater" I would assume that discoveries of remains occur on a weekly basis.

I am sure Google would have more for those interested.

Bill

mick.wilson · Post by **mick.wilson** » Tue Aug 22, 2006 8:09 pm

From the same web site.

Looks like there are Russian soldiers remains found in this one but it all looks official.

http://www.detektorweb.cz/index.4me?s=s ... &mm=1&vd=1

Interesting web site, if only I could read Czechoslovakian

Matt · Post by **Matt** » Wed Aug 23, 2006 3:54 am

weasel_nut wrote:Most archealogical digs (or dives) of potential historic battle sites of WWI and onward have a representative of the countrys military on scene who overseas any possible discovery of an MIA soldiers remains. Here in the states I believe the group is called JPAC (Joint POW/MIA Accounting Commission or something like that).

There are laws in almost every civilized nation about disturbing the remains of the war dead. Thus giving most recoveries the full military honors that these soldiers deserve.Bill

Hi Bill,

I'm afraid in Europe(the UK included) there are few laws to protect "battlefield graves" and those which do exist are seldom enforced. JPAC do outstanding work and I believe it is the standard set by JPAC which other countries should strive to achieve.

I do quite a bit of work on the MIA subject,mainly relating to the protection of military aircraft crash sites in the UK and attempting to stop the huge trade in"crash relics" from fatal crashes. One success recently was getting a souvenir hunter to hand over a wedding ring he had taken from the crash site of a B17 so it can be returned to the next of kin.

It is hard to over estimate the scale of looting from crash sites in the UK and Europe over the last 35 years,sites designated as war graves have suffered just as much as any other,and a huge amount of historical information has also been lost,yet despite all this the vast majority of the public are totally un-aware of what is happening(and a good proportion probably would not care if they did know

).

Since the end of the USSR and the advent of sites such as ebay the battlefields and military cemeteries of Eastern Europe have been especially hard hit,there are several cases of German military cemeteries in Eastern Europe being dug by people looking for "relics" to sell. I did some work sometime ago on one particular case of a guy from Poland who was going into the Ukrane and digging up the Graves of German soldiers and then selling what he found on the internet,the German authorities took action against him but I did later receive several death threats from the individual and his associates

.

I'm not saying that those who carried out the tank recovery which started this thread are involved in looting graves,but I must say that the pile of German insignia in the photo at the top of the page does put doubts in my mind.

Matt.

Bill_Wolf · Post by **Bill_Wolf** » Wed Aug 23, 2006 7:23 am

Thank you for the straight story on this Matt.

Google did not have any of this info on the search...I am not surprised that the media will not cover this...but it does disgust me that there is not more respect for the dead.

I guess in the end they too will get theirs.

42cckw · Post by **42cckw** » Wed Aug 23, 2006 7:31 am

Hi Matt
Thanks for that information,I don't believe alot of people at least over here are aware of this happening. You could never get away with that in the states. I stand by what I said in my post and thank you for looking out for all our fallen heroes.

Matt · Post by **Matt** » Thu Aug 24, 2006 12:55 pm

Hi guys,

Thanks for your comments on this. Here are two ebay items which are good examples of crash sites in the UK being looted for profit.

290022692958 and 290022684568. the seller has other similar lots listed.

I'll contact the department within the RAF which is responsible for the protection of crash sites,but the chances are little or no action will be taken.

In the UK it is a criminal offence under the Protection of Military Remains Act 1986 to "Tamper with,damage,move,remove or unearth any part of a crashed military aircraft".

Matt.

mick.wilson · Post by **mick.wilson** » Thu Aug 24, 2006 1:54 pm

Many years ago I had a job working for Doug Arnold (Warbirds of GB) re-building crashed WWII aircraft, most of the aircraft that came in were Spitfires that had crashed in a Burma jungle somewhere but we did have some crashed German aircraft from Europe.
I was 16 years old at the time and never even thought of the guys that crashed in them but this was 1980 and I guess he got away with it as the Ã¢â‚¬Å“Military Remains Act 1986Ã¢â‚¬Â

Matt · Post by **Matt** » Thu Aug 24, 2006 2:17 pm

Hi Mick,

Technically crash sites in the UK have always been protected but the"86 act" is better defined than the previous laws. I'd guess that the aircraft Doug Arnold had were not fatal crashes,and as they happened outside the UK British law would not apply anyway.

You are correct that the 86 act is not retrospective. I am working on getting greater protection on crash sites in the UK and have had quite a bit of success so far.

Matt.

mick.wilson · Post by **mick.wilson** » Thu Aug 24, 2006 2:23 pm

Matt wrote:I am working on getting greater protection on crash sites in the UK and have had quite a bit of success so far.

Matt.

Well done Matt your doing a great job.

Mick

41CCKW · Post by **41CCKW** » Mon Dec 11, 2006 4:25 pm

This one is disturbing.

http://www.detektorweb.cz/index.4me?s=s ... &mm=1&vd=1

The GMC CCKW

An interesting find

An interesting find

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