CCKW 352 + set 7

[Ledog]

Was the set 7 mounted on both 353 and 352 trucks during WWII? I heard that only 353 set 7 are originals, but I see a lot of 352 ones by collectors.

Any period pictures of 352 set 7?

[Degsy]

The French Army fitted No7 sets to 352s and it is possible that they could have been fitted 'in field' during WW2 but since production nos were limited and they were designed to be used as a gun tractor it doesn't seem very likely but no doubt somebody will come up with a pic to prove me wrong. Karoshi???

[Karoshi]

I go with you Degsy, I've no proof that the lot 7 kit was fitted to the SWB, 352 in WW2. Certainly by Korea 1952/53 it had become a common practice with the French, and there are many pictures from this period.

As the 352 was designed specifically for the Gun Tractor role I can't see that a lot 7 fit out would have been included.

However if you were a gun crew handling say a 155 Long Tom or a 205, and had to lift that stuff, and you saw a scrap Lot 7 lying around, what would you have done? Field mod?

I'd never say never.

[Ledog]

I have seen pics of 352 set 7 in France, Nederland, UK, USA, etc... But no period pics. Only restored trucks.

[Degsy]

When we bought our ex-French 352 it was fitted with a No7 set but it was definitely of French manufacture. The 352 was built to tow the 105mm gun, was it ever used for larger weapons? I have seen pics of it towing 40mm Bofors and 17lb antitank guns in British service in N. Africa and later in Italy.

[Karoshi]

Degsy, of course you're absolutely right the 352 was designed to haul the 105.

I was just thinking more broadly that these young 18- 20 year old gun crews with what ever weapons system they were on, would have constantlybeen on the look out, seeking an an edge. If they could find away of avoiding humping rounds I feel sure they would have taken it. This would have been especially true on the larger caliber stuff.

[Degsy]

Hi Karoshi
That certainly makes sense. I wasn't being critical of your comments,just wondering if any pics were in existence,I have a DVD which shows a large
US truck hauling a big gun or howitzer in Normandy whereas the pics most commonly show a high speed tractor being used for the job. Not sure of the make but possibly a Mack.

[Ledog]

352's were designed to haul guns but...



...they were also used for many other tasks.

[Ledog]

Would that mean that the SET 7 was always with winch?

[Chappers]

First whilst on the subject I'm still looking for a TM or TB for the No7 set,anyone help??
Who made the No 7 set's , The one I've just purchased for my 352 says Carnige USA on the Steel work but has a French International block & Chain. As Degsy has mentioned his is French Manufactured. What company made the French No 7 set??.

As regards to the purpose of the CCKW LWB with the No 7 set it states

Purpose: To provide mobile facilities for maintenance and repair.

I'm sure this would have been adopted to include the SWB aswell.

[Karoshi]

Purpose: To provide mobile facilities for maintenance and repair.

and that's why they carried a pair of shear legs and stays for lifting, utilising the front mounted winch, and a Ginny. It was all specialised kit and unlikely to have been "issue" in the Gun Tractor Role. I've never seen a period 352 in this role, but that's not to say there weren't exceptions or field mods.

Anyone with a period picture they could post ?

[Matt]

I have seen several original photos of CCKW's fitted with the Set 7 in use by the Eighth Air Force for bomb handling. alway's on a 353 though.

Matt.

[mcspool]

Any period pictures of 352 set 7?

No - but what about a Chevrolet 1½-ton truck fitted with No.7 Wrecker Set?!?

Title: A one-and-a-half ton truck with wrecker mount pulling in a jeep during maneuvers somewhere in New Caledonia



Source: http://www.loc.gov/rr/print/catalog.html
Digital ID: fsa 8e01243 Source: digital file from intermediary roll film
Reproduction Number: LC-USW33-027852-ZC (b&w film neg.)
Repository: Library of Congress Prints and Photographs Division Washington, D.C. 20540

[almrens]

Not a 352 ,still a nice picture
sadly poor quality
field manual FM 8-5 van May 1945

[Cat Man]

I'm looking for the exact reference, but remember being told that the "Set No 7" kit was the result of a need for a light recovery capability in small or seperate units that were not authorized the 4 Ton Medium or 10 Ton Heavy wrecker equipment in their TO&E.

A similar but later post war version was refered to as a "light recovery wrecker. They are of the same size as the WWII No. 7. They made available for using units thru the 1990's and could be installed in the M35 series 6X6 trucks.

I remember seeing them in M35's in light infantry units, medical units and seperate reserve and national guard units in the 1980's.

Not intended to be the solution to most recovery operations but they were intended to fill a need for up to 3 ton lift capacity and free up the limited avalability of purpose built meduim and heavy recovery equipment that was always in higher demand.

If I find the reference I'll post it.

Cat Man

[Bill_Wolf]

Cat man is correct.

I have been looking for a Set 7 for my 352. One vendor has a WWII set 7 and the post war set. The WWII model has the curved mount as pictured above. The subsequent unit has strait beams welded at 45 degree angles to make the front arm.

I decided not to buy it at the time and it got scrapped.

Bill

[the cooler king]

The set 7 In the above photo looks like it is on a chevy.With the bed being shorter on a chevy then a cckw. Is there a smaller wrecker set to fit a chevy?Different set number.Or was it fabricated to fit? I could use one of these things The Cooler King

[Canadian Gunner]

I read this thread with some interest as my personal collecting focus is on the stuff I drove, worked on or commanded (I'm a 'mustang' in US terminology and spent a number of years working my way up to Bombardier (Corporal to the non-Gunner types) before commissioning). 32 years as an Instructor-in-Gunnery in the Royal Canadian Artillery has gotta be worth somethin'!

The 352 would not normally be used as an ammunition truck as the limited numbers would have kept them in the tractor role. 105 howitzer ammo comes two rounds to a crate (long flat crates) which were hand loaded into the tractors and ammo vehicles. Ammo trucks usually weigh out before they bulk out due to the concentrated nature of their loads. Some basic calculations:

CCKW combat load is 2.5 tons (5000 lbs)
105mm ammo box (two rounds) is approx 70 lbs. 5000 divided by 70 equals roughly 70 boxes or only 140 rounds. The LWB CCKW is 80 sq ft for the bed so we are talking about 25 boxes per layer at three square feet per box. Three layers of boxes (75 boxes) and the truck is maxed out. (I know the CCKW could handle 5 tons on the road but we Gunners always load to the off-road capacity.) The 60 square feet of the SWB CCKW means it would have to stack the crates in four layers which would put them over the tailgate.

The SWB gun tractors had to carry the seven detachment members (two up front and five in the rear with the gear), three big camouflage nets, guns stores and tools, personal kit for seven and personal weapons, small-arms ammo, rations, fuel, water, etc, etc, etc. A rough count comes up with a load of 3500 lbs BEFORE you add any howitzer ammo- you have 1500 lbs left so throw in 20 boxes (40 rounds) of howitzer ammo and your 'prime mover' is full. Remember that the Gunners have to fit in with all this stuff so the ammo was usually laid as a layer over the floor (don't hit any mines, driver!) and then everything else stacked or stored as carefully as possible... its no wonder that many Gunners were badly injured if their tractors tipped or rolled over!

In Commonwealth tradition each Detachment (artillery have detachments, ships and tanks have crews), consisted of the Gun, the Tractor and the Limber (a trailer as seen with the 25 pounder or a second truck, to carry the ammo).

Bigger guns, the 155mm, 175mm and 8 inch (203mm) ammo came in special pallets with eight, six or four rounds sitting upright. At 100, 150 and 200 lbs per round, the pallets weighed in at 800, 900 and 800 lbs respectively. Propellant was delivered on separate pallets that weighed similar amounts). Five pallets (40, 30 and 20 rounds respectively) and your CCKW was weighed out. This is why the big ammo usually went into bigger trucks... one truck to move 20 rounds (with no propellant) just isn't cost effective.

I have personally delivered 155 ammo in a jeep trailer (five rounds with propellent tubes) so I know there are exceptions to the generalities I have explained. Just thought you would be interested in an old Gunner's point of view!

Ubique! ("Everywhere", the sole Battle Honour of the Royal Artilleries (UK, Canada, Oz, and Kiwis)

Mike

[Chappers]

My 352 with No 7 set and towing the Polsten Quad. The Polsten is 3.1 tons and you certainly know when your pulling it up a hill.

[mud-snow]

Here is a plate that should be of interest regarding the loads on a 352. It is situated on the left hand side of the tailgate.
Rolf