tire chains
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- Second Lieutenant
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tire chains
When tire chains were installed on a g506 or g508, did they put them on all the rear wheels or just the outer ones? How about the front axles?
It looks like it would be a pain to install chains on the inside rear wheels.
John
It looks like it would be a pain to install chains on the inside rear wheels.
John
- Cat Man
- Major
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Re: tire chains
Hi John,
Here is a page from on old Army PS magazine that shows the tire chain combinations on military all wheel trucks.
Chains come in two configurations. Single set and a dual set that covers both wheels on a dual set up. They can be used in various combinations depending on what you have.
They are heavy and take up a lot of storage room. While authorized, I don't think most vehicles carried them unless the situation required it. I store mine in 5 Gal pails and it takes five pails to store a set for a CCKW. The chain set size are usually marked on the retainer clip and should say 7.50X20.
They are not too bad to install once you get the hang of it. Unless you and the truck are already up to your axles in mud. Then it is ugly.
Cat Man
Here is a page from on old Army PS magazine that shows the tire chain combinations on military all wheel trucks.
Chains come in two configurations. Single set and a dual set that covers both wheels on a dual set up. They can be used in various combinations depending on what you have.
They are heavy and take up a lot of storage room. While authorized, I don't think most vehicles carried them unless the situation required it. I store mine in 5 Gal pails and it takes five pails to store a set for a CCKW. The chain set size are usually marked on the retainer clip and should say 7.50X20.
They are not too bad to install once you get the hang of it. Unless you and the truck are already up to your axles in mud. Then it is ugly.
Cat Man
40 Years An Engine Guy
30 Years A Caterpillar Guy
Still Learning Every Day
30 Years A Caterpillar Guy
Still Learning Every Day
- Karoshi
- Lieutenant Colonel
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- Location: UK
Re: tire chains
I asked this same question some time ago. The information given by Cat Man is interesting, and I'd like to enquire from what year was the Army PS Magazine he quotes from, published ? My own investigation unearthed different results for the 6 X 6 set up, advising that if a full set of chains was not going to be fitted, the outer wheels on both rear axles, together with
the front axle should be dressed. That is if only four chains are to be used on the rear, the four outer wheels be fitted, i.e. both axles
This came from a WWii Military Manual,........................... which I will now have to find, to quote the reference.
I'll start looking.
the front axle should be dressed. That is if only four chains are to be used on the rear, the four outer wheels be fitted, i.e. both axles
This came from a WWii Military Manual,........................... which I will now have to find, to quote the reference.
I'll start looking.
- Karoshi
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Re: tire chains
.........................and for the detail seekers, this may be just what you're looking for:
http://www.milweb.net/classifieds/large ... 9304&cat=8
quite a bargain I'd say !!!!!!!
http://www.milweb.net/classifieds/large ... 9304&cat=8
quite a bargain I'd say !!!!!!!
- Karoshi
- Lieutenant Colonel
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- Joined: Thu Jun 08, 2006 1:10 am
- Location: UK
Re: tire chains
The reference I have is:
FM 25-10. Basic Field Manual of Motor Transport ( March 12, 1942.)
Section II. Preliminary Instruction
Para 16.a.5 Chains & Traction Devices:
a. Chains.-Chains are generally necessary in mud, sand,
snow, or slush-ice. Chains should not be used on ice-covered
roads when they cannot bite into the ice. The following general
rules apply to the application and use of chains:
(1) Chains are applied before the vehicle becomes mired.
(2) Chains are so applied that rotation of the wheel tends
to close the chain fastenings. If improperly installed, rotation
of the wheel opens the fastening and the chain will be
lost.
(3) Fairly loose adjustment gives better traction and less
tire wear than tight adjustment.
(4) On all-wheel-drive vehicles without center differential
or other compensating torque device, chains must be installed
on all wheels to prevent unnecessary strain.
(5) When only single chains are provided for dual-tired
wheels, they should be installed on the outside tires.
Now I know this is open to interpretation, but some where I have corroboration of this, explaining that this allows the lead wheel to clear the path and the trail wheel to give grip. For this to happen of course, the chains have to be in-line.
Any thoughts ?
FM 25-10. Basic Field Manual of Motor Transport ( March 12, 1942.)
Section II. Preliminary Instruction
Para 16.a.5 Chains & Traction Devices:
a. Chains.-Chains are generally necessary in mud, sand,
snow, or slush-ice. Chains should not be used on ice-covered
roads when they cannot bite into the ice. The following general
rules apply to the application and use of chains:
(1) Chains are applied before the vehicle becomes mired.
(2) Chains are so applied that rotation of the wheel tends
to close the chain fastenings. If improperly installed, rotation
of the wheel opens the fastening and the chain will be
lost.
(3) Fairly loose adjustment gives better traction and less
tire wear than tight adjustment.
(4) On all-wheel-drive vehicles without center differential
or other compensating torque device, chains must be installed
on all wheels to prevent unnecessary strain.
(5) When only single chains are provided for dual-tired
wheels, they should be installed on the outside tires.
Now I know this is open to interpretation, but some where I have corroboration of this, explaining that this allows the lead wheel to clear the path and the trail wheel to give grip. For this to happen of course, the chains have to be in-line.
Any thoughts ?
- Cat Man
- Major
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Re: tire chains
Well John,
As you can see, you have now opened up the "Tire Chain Can Of Worms"!
Let me first say that I live in a region where it snows - a lot! And we plow and dig and drive on chains a fair amount. I recently completed some research on military tire chain placement for an upcoming magazine article including comparing WWII, Korean and later vintage manuals. There is a good deal of conflicting and corrisponding information that will confuse us all. So I went with the most current line of thinking which is Issue 420 US ARMY PS Magazine Nov 1987. Remember that 6X6 trucks were a new inovation in the 1940's and we have driven a few thousand miles on chains in snow and ice since those 1940's manuals were written.
If you study WWII winter war photo's you will see different combinations of tire chains on all wheel drive trucks. Everything from all chains on all wheels to a single chain on one wheel of a 6 wheel vehicle. Sometimes under combat theater conditions, that was all the chain that was available. Even one is better than none.
I think it was Col Theodore Roosevelt that said "Do the best you can with what you have, were you are." That applies to tire chains on military vehicles too.
If you gotta go, chain up and drive on!
Cat Man
As you can see, you have now opened up the "Tire Chain Can Of Worms"!
Let me first say that I live in a region where it snows - a lot! And we plow and dig and drive on chains a fair amount. I recently completed some research on military tire chain placement for an upcoming magazine article including comparing WWII, Korean and later vintage manuals. There is a good deal of conflicting and corrisponding information that will confuse us all. So I went with the most current line of thinking which is Issue 420 US ARMY PS Magazine Nov 1987. Remember that 6X6 trucks were a new inovation in the 1940's and we have driven a few thousand miles on chains in snow and ice since those 1940's manuals were written.
If you study WWII winter war photo's you will see different combinations of tire chains on all wheel drive trucks. Everything from all chains on all wheels to a single chain on one wheel of a 6 wheel vehicle. Sometimes under combat theater conditions, that was all the chain that was available. Even one is better than none.
I think it was Col Theodore Roosevelt that said "Do the best you can with what you have, were you are." That applies to tire chains on military vehicles too.
If you gotta go, chain up and drive on!
Cat Man
40 Years An Engine Guy
30 Years A Caterpillar Guy
Still Learning Every Day
30 Years A Caterpillar Guy
Still Learning Every Day
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Re: tire chains
Careful! Chevys were known to break axles. I have replaced one already and low range makes it worse. 2x as much torqueI could feel the wheels hop a bit
Dr Deuce Over 50,000 driven miles in a CCKW
1942 CCKW closed cab shopvan
1943 CCKW closed cab cargo w/M32 MG mount
1944 CCKW open cab LeRoi Kompressor
1944 CCKW open cab F1 Aircraft fueler tanker
1945 CCKW open cab cargo w/artic cab
1942 Chev cargo
1942 Chev K51 Panel
1944 Chev M6 Bomb Truck
1942 GPW Jeep
http://home.comcast.net/~cckw/wsb/html/ ... 59870.html
1942 CCKW closed cab shopvan
1943 CCKW closed cab cargo w/M32 MG mount
1944 CCKW open cab LeRoi Kompressor
1944 CCKW open cab F1 Aircraft fueler tanker
1945 CCKW open cab cargo w/artic cab
1942 Chev cargo
1942 Chev K51 Panel
1944 Chev M6 Bomb Truck
1942 GPW Jeep
http://home.comcast.net/~cckw/wsb/html/ ... 59870.html
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- Second Lieutenant
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Re: tire chains
It's OK. As soon as I get any wheel hop I back off quickly. It's the same when I drive my old jeep. I like these old machines too much to abuse them!
John
John
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Re: tire chains
Nice set of chains, how do the ends of the 3 long chains fix together, are there any tensioning on them and are they WWII age ?Cat Man wrote:Hi John,
Chains come in two configurations. Single set and a dual set that covers both wheels on a dual set up. They can be used in various combinations depending on what you have.
They are heavy and take up a lot of storage room. While authorized, I don't think most vehicles carried them unless the situation required it. I store mine in 5 Gal pails and it takes five pails to store a set for a CCKW. The chain set size are usually marked on the retainer clip and should say 7.50X20.
They are not too bad to install once you get the hang of it. Unless you and the truck are already up to your axles in mud. Then it is ugly.
Cat Man
R Cubed
Last edited by R Cubed on Sun Jan 10, 2010 6:53 am, edited 1 time in total.
Don't say can't as anything is possible with time and effort.
1941 CCKW352B1
GP Medium tent
105 M2-A1 Howitzer
1941 CCKW352B1
GP Medium tent
105 M2-A1 Howitzer
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- First Lieutenant
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Re: tire chains
Does this apply to banjo axled GMC trucks as well, aren't the axles of these to types of vehicle the same ?dr deuce wrote:Careful! Chevys were known to break axles. I have replaced one already and low range makes it worse. 2x as much torqueI could feel the wheels hop a bit
What about GMC split axles do these suffer from breakages, which are the tougher axles ?
Don't say can't as anything is possible with time and effort.
1941 CCKW352B1
GP Medium tent
105 M2-A1 Howitzer
1941 CCKW352B1
GP Medium tent
105 M2-A1 Howitzer
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Re: tire chains
On the CCKW, you are spreading the torque out over 3 axles. If one looses traction. you still have 2 others. With the Chev....
I do not know about the splits or banjo CCKWs breaking axles. I have not personally heard of any though I am sure they happened. And on a split, think about trying to get all those little parts out...
Remember the metallurgy back then was not as good and the Banjo axles had 10 splines. Newer trucks tend to have more finer splines. Less stress on just a few.
I do not know about the splits or banjo CCKWs breaking axles. I have not personally heard of any though I am sure they happened. And on a split, think about trying to get all those little parts out...
Remember the metallurgy back then was not as good and the Banjo axles had 10 splines. Newer trucks tend to have more finer splines. Less stress on just a few.
Dr Deuce Over 50,000 driven miles in a CCKW
1942 CCKW closed cab shopvan
1943 CCKW closed cab cargo w/M32 MG mount
1944 CCKW open cab LeRoi Kompressor
1944 CCKW open cab F1 Aircraft fueler tanker
1945 CCKW open cab cargo w/artic cab
1942 Chev cargo
1942 Chev K51 Panel
1944 Chev M6 Bomb Truck
1942 GPW Jeep
http://home.comcast.net/~cckw/wsb/html/ ... 59870.html
1942 CCKW closed cab shopvan
1943 CCKW closed cab cargo w/M32 MG mount
1944 CCKW open cab LeRoi Kompressor
1944 CCKW open cab F1 Aircraft fueler tanker
1945 CCKW open cab cargo w/artic cab
1942 Chev cargo
1942 Chev K51 Panel
1944 Chev M6 Bomb Truck
1942 GPW Jeep
http://home.comcast.net/~cckw/wsb/html/ ... 59870.html
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- First Lieutenant
- Posts: 107
- Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2008 4:10 pm
- Location: U K South coast
Re: tire chains
What does this link to ? as it does not seem to work for me, do you have another link or describe what its about ?Karoshi wrote:.........................and for the detail seekers, this may be just what you're looking for:
http://www.milweb.net/classifieds/large ... 9304&cat=8
quite a bargain I'd say !!!!!!!
Don't say can't as anything is possible with time and effort.
1941 CCKW352B1
GP Medium tent
105 M2-A1 Howitzer
1941 CCKW352B1
GP Medium tent
105 M2-A1 Howitzer