Starter has to be changed

Ledog · Post by **Ledog** » Sun Oct 30, 2005 6:16 pm

I'll have to change my 12V starter. Here is the modification that has been made by Swiss army on my truck. The starter itself looks like original to me. But they added an electric system to pull the trigger that get out of the starter. There is a push button swich on the dash board to start engine.

The short trigger.

As I'm trying to rebuilt my CCKW as original a possible, I will replace the starter pedal and linkage to the starter. I've bought a contactor that take place onto the starter but it seems the "trigger" (as I named it above) is to short and pointing to the rear. It should point to the front and push on the starter contactor when the pedal il pushed. So, I'll have to change the whole starter. The fact is I'm not a mechanic and I'll have to remove the gas filter that is very close to the starter. Then I don't know how to remove the starter. Is they any oil in the cranking area? How do I remove the gas filter?

Thanks for infos.[/img]

Tim Baltz · Post by **Tim Baltz** » Sun Oct 30, 2005 11:23 pm

Yves, You should not have to remove the filter, discontect the battery, then the wires on the starter. Remove the bottom bolt and the top nut and it should slid out. There is not oil behind the starter, Hope this helps

Ledog · Post by **Ledog** » Mon Oct 31, 2005 4:14 am

Thanks. I'll try. I must find a new starter before.

dr deuce · Post by **dr deuce** » Mon Oct 31, 2005 7:07 pm

BE CAREFULL!!!!!!!

There are 6v ring gears and 12v ring gears both of which will fit onto the CCKW (or Chevy) flywheel. The starter gear MUST match!

With this having been modified, it might have a 12v ring gear

You can install a 6v pinion gear on a 12v started by using a bushing as the 12v starter shaft is smaller in diameter. You cannot put a 12v pinopn in a 6v starter

Found all this out back in the early 70's with my civy 46 1.5 ton Chevy dump truck

Ledog · Post by **Ledog** » Mon Oct 31, 2005 7:35 pm

I cannot simply buy a 12V starter?

dr deuce · Post by **dr deuce** » Mon Oct 31, 2005 8:49 pm

You can buy a 1957 Chev truck starter IF you have a 12v ring gear. If you have a 6v ring gear, you use the standard CCKW starter.

armydriver · Post by **armydriver** » Tue Nov 01, 2005 9:37 am

I know you want your truck as original as possible, but I have to admit that I really like that set up. Well engineered and makes it easy to start the truck when out of the cab.

Ledog · Post by **Ledog** » Tue Nov 01, 2005 1:46 pm

But it don't work properly. The coil tends to slip and sometimes I have to make 10 or 15 attempts do start the engine.

Ledog · Post by **Ledog** » Sun Nov 13, 2005 12:50 am

dr deuce wrote:You can buy a 1957 Chev truck starter IF you have a 12v ring gear. If you have a 6v ring gear, you use the standard CCKW starter.

How can I know If I have a 6 or 12 volt ring gear?

Can a 6V starter be mounted in a 12V system? Would it resist to the 12V tension?

dr deuce · Post by **dr deuce** » Sun Nov 13, 2005 7:20 am

The 6v ring gear has fewer teeth. It is hard to really tell without seeing them side by side unless you have seen a lot of them.

The pinion on the starter MUST match the ring gear. Either starter will bolt up to the bellhousing. The wrong starter ring gear combo will make horrific noises when trying to engage.

You may have a worn clevis arm in the starter. This is what throws the pinion gear into the flywheel.

You can take the starter apart and squeeze the clevis together (not too tight) where it engages the pinion gear. The pins on the clevis wear and this can cause the starter to not engage reliably all the time. I have done this many times to GM starters and need to do it again on my cargo deuce.

Ledog · Post by **Ledog** » Thu Nov 17, 2005 6:05 pm

I have removed the starter and here is what I have. The label reads

ANDERSON IND.
Delco-Remy
Model 1108115
Serial 4M10
12 Volts
MADE IN USA

The starter's ring gear is 4 cm diameter (=1,5748 inch).

The engine's ring gear's teeths are a bit worn. I don't know if it's serious.

I have to find another 12 Volts starter, made for the foot starting pedal linkage. I realize that it is a realy heavy part!! I'll have to find it in Europe.

dr deuce · Post by **dr deuce** » Thu Nov 17, 2005 6:23 pm

If you are running 12v with a 6v starter and ring gear, you can run just about any GMC or Chevy starter from that era that will fit.

There were differences between the GMC and Chevrolet starters back then as far as construction and starting torque are concerned. With 12v
on a 6v starter you will not be able to tell.

From the looks of the picture, it 'appears' to me to be a 12v starter and pinion setup from the size of the shaft. If so, you MUST have a 12v starter as a replacement for the existing one because of the ring gear.

A GM lever action 12v starter will probably be somewhat difficult to find in Europe

Ledog · Post by **Ledog** » Thu Nov 17, 2005 6:50 pm

What do you think about the wear of the cranking wheel? (First picture)

joel gopan · Post by **joel gopan** » Thu Nov 17, 2005 6:51 pm

Why don't you just ask him how many teeth on his ring gear, to confirm it is the standard CCKW gear. it can be done but takes time. Once you confirm it is CCKW ring Gear, then you can advise with confidence that Yves can use a CCKW Starter.

Ledog · Post by **Ledog** » Thu Nov 17, 2005 7:18 pm

Joel, do you mean this gear?

Or this one?

dr deuce · Post by **dr deuce** » Thu Nov 17, 2005 7:48 pm

I will go down to the POD (Pembroke Ordnance Depot) tonight and take a set of calipers to a 6v starter shaft and a 12v (if I have one here). They are quite different in size.

joel gopan · Post by **joel gopan** » Thu Nov 17, 2005 10:17 pm

The Flywheel gear, it is not fun to do while installed, but you can turn the engine over with a prybar from the flywheel housing, and mark every 10th tooth so as to keep track of your count. Dr D will tell you how many teeth on the original, because I will PM him and tell him so that he can finish helping you. I do not know how many teeth on the 12 volt civilian flywheel ring gears as I stay 100% original as the factory designed them.

dr deuce · Post by **dr deuce** » Thu Nov 17, 2005 10:41 pm

I measured a couple starters quickly:

One lever action starter which I am pretty sure is a 6v Chev or GMC starter has a pinion shaft diameter of .560"

The other was an enclosed solenoid operated GM starter that was 12v and had a pinion shaft diameter of .460"

It will be quite a bit easier to measure the shaft diameter.

dr deuce · Post by **dr deuce** » Thu Nov 17, 2005 11:27 pm

Regarding the tooth wear:

There will always be some in a 60 year old truck. From the pictures. it does not look too bad.

In looking at the pictures again, the starter looks like a standard GM starter with the external linkage solenoid. The solenoid is definately an oddball. Maybe a European version of the standard US external linkage solenoid. The 4 bolt solenoid mounting gives it away to me.

The US had external linkage 6v starters and I believe that mid 50's car and truck ones for Chevys may have been a 12v versions too.

snow man · Post by **snow man** » Fri Nov 18, 2005 6:19 pm

Looks allmost like a weasel solenoid except two smaller wire contacts are on the back above batt cable hookup. I hope i did"t stir the pot

The GMC CCKW

Starter has to be changed

Starter has to be changed

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