I am looking at buying the above the vendor states the steering is slack and causes a wobble,and the passenger side rear barman’s stick but are ok once on the move.
Anyone know what this might indicate please
Thanks
Couple of issues with GMC 352 1941
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mudflap
- First Lieutenant
- Posts: 138
- Joined: Sat Jul 07, 2012 12:45 am
- Location: Macomb Twp, MI
Re: Couple of issues with GMC 352 1941
Hi Senschu,
Excess play in the steering system is typically caused by worn or misadjusted front suspension components - i.e. tie rod ends, drag link, steering gear box, steering knuckle bearings, even misadjusted front wheel bearings have been known to cause excess steering wheel play.
The best method in the field for determining the source of excess steering wheel play is to climb under the vehicle (while its parked, obviously) and have someone move the steering wheel from side to side while you inspect the various components. You should be able the quickly identify what is moving (and what is not moving) relative to the tire either visually or by putting your hand on the suspect joint.
Shimmy, (oscillation or shaking in the steering wheel while driving) could be caused by the above, tire imbalance, or a combination of the two.
As for the "barman's"... you got me there..
Is this maybe a term for brakes ?
Best Regards....
Excess play in the steering system is typically caused by worn or misadjusted front suspension components - i.e. tie rod ends, drag link, steering gear box, steering knuckle bearings, even misadjusted front wheel bearings have been known to cause excess steering wheel play.
The best method in the field for determining the source of excess steering wheel play is to climb under the vehicle (while its parked, obviously) and have someone move the steering wheel from side to side while you inspect the various components. You should be able the quickly identify what is moving (and what is not moving) relative to the tire either visually or by putting your hand on the suspect joint.
Shimmy, (oscillation or shaking in the steering wheel while driving) could be caused by the above, tire imbalance, or a combination of the two.
As for the "barman's"... you got me there..
Is this maybe a term for brakes ?Best Regards....
-
senschu
- Draftee
- Posts: 2
- Joined: Fri May 22, 2020 5:15 am
Re: Couple of issues with GMC 352 1941
Mud flap sorry that is brakes sticking for a short period and then when moving seems to be ok
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mudflap
- First Lieutenant
- Posts: 138
- Joined: Sat Jul 07, 2012 12:45 am
- Location: Macomb Twp, MI
Re: Couple of issues with GMC 352 1941
Hi senschu.
In terms of reliability, I think that most owners would agree that overall the CCKW is pretty robust. However, if they were to rank its systems from most reliable to least, I think you would also find that the brakes would end up at the bottom of the list.
One of the main reasons for this is that unlike modern vehicles, the hydraulic system on the CCKW is not sealed. This allows moisture and contaminants to readily infiltrate into the system and combine with the brake fluid, causing corrosion of the metal components. Additionally, there are no dust boots on the wheel cylinders to keep out foreign contaminates. Rather, the cylinders have metal caps that ride over the OD of the wheel cylinders, and are pushed by the pistons. These caps contain threaded rods which push on the brake shoes, and also provide adjustment for normal wear. The interface between the cap and the wheel cylinder is unprotected, and can easily corrode causing the brakes to hang up.
Add to this the fact that most of these trucks sit idle for extended periods of time, which only exacerbates the formation of corrosion.
It is possible, that what you are experiencing might just be a single localized failure - like a bad return spring, or sticking cylinder. However, I would bet that it is a symptom of a much larger issue, and what you are seeing is only the tip of the iceberg.
IMHO, I would recommend performing a complete brake system service on any new CCKW that I would purchase. This is definitely one of those "while I'm at it" type projects, and would include:
- Removal of drums of all wheels, disassemble and inspect shoes, drums, wheel cylinders, and attaching HW. Service or replace as necessary.
- Disassembly and inspection of master cylinder.
- Inspection of all lines and rubber hoses. Replace as necessary.
- Flush all lines.
- Based on how much crud is found in the system, the hydrovac should be serviced as well - either rebuilt or replaced.
- Rebuild wheel cylinders and master cylinder - sleeve or replace any that are pitted
- Lubricate moving parts with hi temp brake lube that is compatible with rubber brake components.
- Replace return springs.
- Replace the wimpy stamped steel retainers on the large pivot pins with e-clips.
The above is a condensed list. If you check TM9-801, there is a fairly comprehensive procedure outlined in section XXXIII. Also, if you search this website, you will find additional information from the posts.
When I purchased my truck, I chose to drive it home from the seller's location, which was about 60 miles from my home. One stretch was a major road, that called for a speed of around 45 mph. After a few minutes, my chase vehicle driver called me to say that there was smoke coming from the LR of the trailing axle. I stopped and inspected it, and the wheel was so hot that it would burn your hand if you touched it. The brakes on that wheel were obviously hanging up.
There is a long amusing story that goes with this, which I will save for later, but the short version is that I jacked up the rear axle, and worked the adjusters while wiggling the wheel in an effort to free things up. I then drove home on back roads at a slow speeds the rest of the way, stopping periodically to let things cool down.
I tore into the brakes the next day and I was alarmed at what I found. There was so much corrosion in that wheel cylinder, that the pistons could hardly move in the bore. The other wheel cylinders, while not quite as bad, were still terribly corroded. I was surprised that they even held fluid - let alone stopped the truck. Had I known this, I would have never even thought about driving it.
The hoses were very old, and the steel lines were a mess. Someone had replaced them in the past, and they had nearly as many kinks in them as bends. The hydrovac was the wrong one and from a two axle vehicle. I am surprised it had enough capacity to function on a CCKW. One of the stamped steel pivot pin retainers had fallen off and (fortunately) stuck itself to the top of the brake shoe, just ahead of the friction service. Luckily, the pin remained in place and did not back out.
The brake service that I thought would take a long weekend, ended up taking several months. I had all of the cylinders sleeved with stainless steel. Replaced the hydrovac unit, all of the hoses, many of the junction fittings, and replaced all of the metal lines with stainless steel ones. Once again, this is kinda the condensed version. I performed some other enhancements to increase reliability. Most of the details are documented on this site as well.
Before anyone reading this thinks that some of this is overkill, remember that the CCKW weighs in at around 10,000 lbs. Also, unlike modern vehicles with a dual reservoir brake system, if your brakes spring a leak on a CCKW, the only thing you have left is the hand brake, and I would not count on that stopping the truck very quickly. Dr. Deuce, who posts regularly on this site, recommends that when first starting up your CCKW, press on the pedal like an emergency stop while the vehicle is stationary. If something is going to fail, better in the driveway, than on the road. I utilize this piece of advice every time I drive my truck.
Not long after I got my truck back on the road again, I was driving behind a small car that started to pull over onto the right shoulder. I moved left to pass, when the driver of the other car suddenly made a left turn directly in front of me into a driveway on the left side of the street. I hit the brakes hard, they started to lock up, and my passenger nearly banged her head on the windshield. The other car was so close that I could barely see the top of the driver's door window below the hood line of my truck. It seems like the guy was totally oblivious to my vehicle. If my brakes had not been in top working order, I would have creamed him for sure.
Best Regards....
In terms of reliability, I think that most owners would agree that overall the CCKW is pretty robust. However, if they were to rank its systems from most reliable to least, I think you would also find that the brakes would end up at the bottom of the list.
One of the main reasons for this is that unlike modern vehicles, the hydraulic system on the CCKW is not sealed. This allows moisture and contaminants to readily infiltrate into the system and combine with the brake fluid, causing corrosion of the metal components. Additionally, there are no dust boots on the wheel cylinders to keep out foreign contaminates. Rather, the cylinders have metal caps that ride over the OD of the wheel cylinders, and are pushed by the pistons. These caps contain threaded rods which push on the brake shoes, and also provide adjustment for normal wear. The interface between the cap and the wheel cylinder is unprotected, and can easily corrode causing the brakes to hang up.
Add to this the fact that most of these trucks sit idle for extended periods of time, which only exacerbates the formation of corrosion.
It is possible, that what you are experiencing might just be a single localized failure - like a bad return spring, or sticking cylinder. However, I would bet that it is a symptom of a much larger issue, and what you are seeing is only the tip of the iceberg.
IMHO, I would recommend performing a complete brake system service on any new CCKW that I would purchase. This is definitely one of those "while I'm at it" type projects, and would include:
- Removal of drums of all wheels, disassemble and inspect shoes, drums, wheel cylinders, and attaching HW. Service or replace as necessary.
- Disassembly and inspection of master cylinder.
- Inspection of all lines and rubber hoses. Replace as necessary.
- Flush all lines.
- Based on how much crud is found in the system, the hydrovac should be serviced as well - either rebuilt or replaced.
- Rebuild wheel cylinders and master cylinder - sleeve or replace any that are pitted
- Lubricate moving parts with hi temp brake lube that is compatible with rubber brake components.
- Replace return springs.
- Replace the wimpy stamped steel retainers on the large pivot pins with e-clips.
The above is a condensed list. If you check TM9-801, there is a fairly comprehensive procedure outlined in section XXXIII. Also, if you search this website, you will find additional information from the posts.
When I purchased my truck, I chose to drive it home from the seller's location, which was about 60 miles from my home. One stretch was a major road, that called for a speed of around 45 mph. After a few minutes, my chase vehicle driver called me to say that there was smoke coming from the LR of the trailing axle. I stopped and inspected it, and the wheel was so hot that it would burn your hand if you touched it. The brakes on that wheel were obviously hanging up.
There is a long amusing story that goes with this, which I will save for later, but the short version is that I jacked up the rear axle, and worked the adjusters while wiggling the wheel in an effort to free things up. I then drove home on back roads at a slow speeds the rest of the way, stopping periodically to let things cool down.
I tore into the brakes the next day and I was alarmed at what I found. There was so much corrosion in that wheel cylinder, that the pistons could hardly move in the bore. The other wheel cylinders, while not quite as bad, were still terribly corroded. I was surprised that they even held fluid - let alone stopped the truck. Had I known this, I would have never even thought about driving it.
The hoses were very old, and the steel lines were a mess. Someone had replaced them in the past, and they had nearly as many kinks in them as bends. The hydrovac was the wrong one and from a two axle vehicle. I am surprised it had enough capacity to function on a CCKW. One of the stamped steel pivot pin retainers had fallen off and (fortunately) stuck itself to the top of the brake shoe, just ahead of the friction service. Luckily, the pin remained in place and did not back out.
The brake service that I thought would take a long weekend, ended up taking several months. I had all of the cylinders sleeved with stainless steel. Replaced the hydrovac unit, all of the hoses, many of the junction fittings, and replaced all of the metal lines with stainless steel ones. Once again, this is kinda the condensed version. I performed some other enhancements to increase reliability. Most of the details are documented on this site as well.
Before anyone reading this thinks that some of this is overkill, remember that the CCKW weighs in at around 10,000 lbs. Also, unlike modern vehicles with a dual reservoir brake system, if your brakes spring a leak on a CCKW, the only thing you have left is the hand brake, and I would not count on that stopping the truck very quickly. Dr. Deuce, who posts regularly on this site, recommends that when first starting up your CCKW, press on the pedal like an emergency stop while the vehicle is stationary. If something is going to fail, better in the driveway, than on the road. I utilize this piece of advice every time I drive my truck.
Not long after I got my truck back on the road again, I was driving behind a small car that started to pull over onto the right shoulder. I moved left to pass, when the driver of the other car suddenly made a left turn directly in front of me into a driveway on the left side of the street. I hit the brakes hard, they started to lock up, and my passenger nearly banged her head on the windshield. The other car was so close that I could barely see the top of the driver's door window below the hood line of my truck. It seems like the guy was totally oblivious to my vehicle. If my brakes had not been in top working order, I would have creamed him for sure.
Best Regards....